Transcript: Henry Huiyao Wang at Oxford Union
January 23 , 2025Democracy in China, Trump’s planned tariffs, how the West misunderstands China, and more.
On November 27, 2024, Henry Huiyao Wang, Founder & President of the Center for China and Globalization (CCG), made history as the first Chinese think tanker to address the Oxford Union, the world’s prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. Since 1823, the Union has been promoting debate and discussion not just in Oxford University but across the globe.
During the event, he was also interviewed by Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy, President of the Oxford Union.
This is the full transcript of Henry Huiyao Wang’s address, interview, and Q&A at the Oxford Union.
Address
President and members of the Oxford Union Society, ladies and gentlemen, good evening! It’s a great honor for me to be here at the prestigious Oxford Union Society.
Upon arriving at Oxford, Great Britain, I remember Charles Dickens famously wrote, “It’s the best of time. It’s the worst of time,” in A Tale of Two Cities. Today, his words resonate as we face a world defined by dualities.
On the one hand, we are living in an era of unprecedented advancements. The global economy has expanded many times, technological innovations are reshaping every facet of our lives, and cross-cultural exchanges have created a tightly linked “global village.”
On the other hand, we are also threatened by immense global challenges. The ongoing Russia-Ukraine war and the conflict between Israel and Palestine have destabilized entire regions and raised fears of a possible risk of the Third World War. Meanwhile, climate change is having unprecedented catastrophic consequences, from devastating wildfires to rising sea levels. Global pandemics, like COVID-19, have also exposed vulnerabilities in our public health systems. Additionally, the rapid advancement of artificial intelligence (AI) poses ethical and economic dilemmas, while developing countries face mounting debt issues.
At this critical moment and crossroads, we need to work together for a better future. Collaboration between major global powers like China, the United States, and Europe with Global South is not only urgent but also a must. Oxford Union platform is a famous platform to discuss these burning issues. I’m truly honoured to be here and speak on some of my personal opinions tonight.
Allow me first to share my personal journey, which explains why I’m so keen on globalization and building bridges.
I was born in Chengdu, the bustling capital of Sichuan Province, home of China’s famous pandas and known for its rich culture and delicious Sichuan cuisine. But for the last 45 years, I have witnessed firsthand China’s development through its reform and opening up process.
At the age of 17, like many young people of my generation, I was sent to a rural village as part of the “down to the countryside” movement. Those years living in a simple thatched hut and working alongside farmers were incredibly challenging, but deeply formative. There was no electricity, running water, or enough food. We had to rely on wells for our drinking water. And it’s so cold in the wintertime. I had to drink hot water with chilies, which was my way of keeping myself warm. Life was harsher than I could have imagined during the Cultural Revolution era. You can’t keep your body and soul together. There’s only work, from dust to dawn. My daily income was just 20 Chinese “cents”, which was equivalent to about three U.S. cents. From this, you can see how China has progressed so far. It was a very difficult time for me, but I treasured a small radio that connected me to the outside world, offering glimpses of hope and knowledge amidst the hardship.
In the winter of 1977, the loudspeaker of the village broadcast a message, “The government is going to reinstate the University Entrance Exam,” which had been suspended for a decade during the Cultural Revolution. I heard that news and immediately jumped on that opportunity by using my radio to study English with “Follow Me.” This transformation brought by Deng Xiaoping’s reform and opening up policy initiated my embracement of globalization. It not only opened China to the world but also reshaped my future.
the first round of exams saw 6 million candidates accumulated during the ten years of Cultural Revolution competing for just 250,000 spots—a daunting 1:25 acceptance ratio for the university. I’m fortunate to get my bachelor degree in English and American literature, which became the foundation for my later involvement in international affairs, opening the door to a world of opportunities.
After my first degree, I served in the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation in Beijing in the early 80s. Later on, I got a chance to pursue my MBA studies in Canada. I was one of the first MBA students from China to study in Canada. Then, I pursued my PhD studies at the University of Western Ontario and the University of Manchester here, in the United Kingdom. I also became a Senior Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School and a Visiting Fellow at the Brookings Institution. Seeing the world with my own eyes was different from my previous experience in China. These learning experiences have helped me look at this world more objectively. I regard myself as an example of China’s reform and opening up who greatly benefit from that.
After my studies in Canada, I worked for one of the largest multinational companies in Canada, SNC-Lavalin. Later, I went through several rounds of competition and got appointed as a Chief Trade Representative for the Quebec Government Office in Hong Kong and Greater China. Those years also mean a big transformation for China, with the world keeping its eyes on China. After coming back to China, I started a company and became a returnee entrepreneur for years. At the time, one of the most important things is how to get the entrepreneurial spirit into China. Afterward, I went back to academic life, teaching as an adjunct professor at Guanghua School of Management at Peking University, where I taught international management.
When I was young, my parents told me, “You have to read 10,000 books and travel 10,000 miles,” which has profoundly influenced my outlook on the world. As they worked as engineers on China’s vast railway network, they often took me on their travels to many places. Those experiences cultivated my fascination with the world beyond China. My father went to Tanzania and Zambia to build the first China-African Railway. Enormous influence on me. My mother’s grandfather’s grandfather was the dean of Yuelu Academy in Hunan Province, which has a thousand years of educational history.
After my entrepreneurial and academic careers, I was thinking about what future development would allow me to combine my experiences in government, business and academia. Creating a Chinese global think tank came to my mind.
I co-founded the Center for China & Globalization (CCG) with Dr. Mable Miao in 2008. That’s when China held the Summer Olympics Games. I remember its slogan was “One World, One Dream,” which symbolizes globalization. This has inspired me to found a non-governmental think tank in China focused on globalization. But at that time, a lot of people felt suspicious, “Why do you call your think tank globalization? Globalization means Westernization and Americanization. You can’t call it globalization. Globalization is a double-edged sword. You can just call it economic globalization.” But we pushed ahead, holding forums and publishing a lot of books. We established CCG with the mission of building bridges and fostering connections between China and the outside world. Guided by our newly found motto, “Global vision for China, Chinese wisdom for the world,” we have continually worked to serve as a global connector, bridge builder and cross-cultural adapter in promoting mutual understanding and collaboration between China and the rest of the world.
CCG has become a new phenomenon in China and become one of the most productive think tanks in China. I’m very pleased to say that CCG has achieved impressive progress over the last 17 years. CCG continued to grow and develop, conducting in-depth research on key aspects of China’s globalization issues, while also providing suggestions to policymakers both in China and abroad. As a non-governmental organization, CCG is the only think tank in China that has been granted special consultative status by the United Nations. For many years in a row, CCG has been ranked among the world’s top 100 think tanks and the top 50 best independent think tanks in the world by the Global Go To Think Tank Index published by the University of Pennsylvania Think Tank and Civil Society Program.
Particularly, CCG played an important role during the pandemic. It was the first Chinese think tank that communicated with the world. We went to six countries in about a month and engaged with different global communities and government officials, bridging the gap between China and the outside world. Since the pandemic broke out, I have personally hosted CCG Global dialogues with nearly 100 top prominent global thought leaders, including Jim O’Neill, Martin Wolf, Thomas Friedman, Graham Allison, Lawrence Summers, Joseph Nye, Ray Dalio, Arancha Gonzalez, Pascal Lamy, Niel Furgson and many more. You can access related videos on YouTube and our website. In the UK I talked with Martin Wolf for two hours. The videos of our dialogue have been viewed about two million times. I talked to Jim O’Neal, who invented the term BRICs, and Neil Ferguson, a British Professor. When I talked to Larry Summers, he said, “Look, Henry, China has lifted 800 million people out of property. This achievement is comparable to the Industrial Revolution in Great Britain. I also talked to Pascal Lamy, who was the former Director-General of the WTO. He said, “Trade is so vital. Globalization will not stop.”
We have published more than 100 books in English and Chinese on global issues, as well as multiple research reports. This has been greatly appreciated by many people at home and abroad. A global think tank in China can play such an important role. We have three English newsletters, Pekingnology, the East is Read and CCG Update, which reach 30,000 elite subscribers from different government agencies, multinational news agencies and think tanks worldwide. It’s of great significance to keep the dialogues and windows open between China and the world.
Over the course of 16 years, CCG has provided support to government policymakers on domestic and global issues with proposals and recommendations. Many of these have been acted on by different levels of governments. Over the years, CCG has hosted many high-profile forums that have become known for their international impact with thousands of participants from China and abroad. CCG also frequently partners with prestigious global forums, such as the Munich Security Conference, the Paris Peace Forum, the Athens Democracy Forum, the Doha Forum, the Bled Strategic Forum and the Boao Forum to promote more balanced and constructive dialogues.
CCG also hosted many incoming visits of foreign ministers of different countries to present Chinese think tank views. This year, we are also proud to have begun hosting regular international ambassador roundtable luncheons in Beijing that have received positive feedback and generated meaningful dialogue with over 50 foreign ambassadors in Beijing. CCG has been building a hub for international exchanges between China and the world.
Today, as we gather in such august and historical surroundings here in Oxford, I would like to present three concrete proposals in my role as a think tanker and witness to China’s unique experiences:
Firstly, I propose a UN Peace Summit to end the wars in Ukraine and the Middle East.
I’m very glad to see that President-Elect Trump has announced within 24 hours of his election that he’s going to end the war for Ukraine. China is also ready to help with this process. With a proposal of a 12-point peace plan for Ukraine. Similarly, China and Brazil have jointly proposed the 6-point peace plan for Ukraine. China along with Brazil and South Africa has formed a “Friends of Peace” initiative for Ukraine.
China’s role as a mediator is becoming increasingly significant. Its economic influence and diplomatic ties allow it to foster dialogue where other nations might struggle. For example, China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine. This dual connection provides China with unmatched economic leverage, enabling it to act as a neutral intermediary. China could participate in post-war reconstruction efforts for both Ukraine.
China has one of the biggest peacekeeping forces among the P5 countries of the UN. China’s recent diplomatic successes, such as brokering the restoration of ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia, demonstrate its capability. Leveraging its position as the largest oil importer of both nations, China facilitated a groundbreaking reconciliation. China recently gathered 14 Palestinian factions in Beijing, contributing to the signing of the Beijing Declaration on Ending Division and Strengthening Palestinian National Unity. China could also inspire North Korea to join China-Japan-South Korea trilateral talks and even encourage its participation in regional frameworks like RCEP and CPTPP.
I regard peace as the most important issue in our time. We have to work together, China, the U.S., the EU, the UK and Global South. We have to prevent the Third World War. We have to keep the world at peace. As early as March 2022, when the war just broke out, I already published an Op-Ed in the New York Times to call for a Seven Parties Talks, P5 countries plus EU and Ukraine. It’s urgent to make peace for Ukraine and the region. So that’s my first proposal—everybody working together to have a UN Peace Summit.
My second proposal is to confront our shared challenge, climate change.
A heavy flood happened a few weeks ago in Spain, resulting in serious fatalities. Last year was the hottest year on record. We are witnessing the dire consequences of climate change. We need to work together. We have to follow the guidelines of the Paris Agreement and work on that.
A decade ago, Beijing was enveloped in a dense shroud of smog, painting a grim tableau reminiscent of the soot-laden streets of 19th-century London described by Charles Dickens in Oliver Twist. The air was thick with pollutants, obscuring skyscrapers and casting a grey pall over daily life. At that time, the U.S. embassy installed a pollution monitoring device on its roof and began publishing daily PM2.5 air quality data, highlighting the dire urgency of confronting the pollution crisis—especially since nearly half of it stemmed from the emissions of vehicles that clogged the city’s arteries. This alarming situation sparked a sweeping awakening among the Chinese public about the vital importance of environmental protection.
Now 60% of the pollution in Beijing is caused by car emissions from combustion. That’s why China started to develop EV cars. And now China is the largest producer of EV cars. China quickly turned around. China has achieved significant advancements in renewable energy, now producing 90% of the world’s solar panels. China is leading the green power transition, which requires all countries to work together. There are doubts from other countries pointing out the overcapacity and oversupply in China. Yet according to the International Energy Agency, global demand for new photovoltaic installations will reach 820 gigawatts, about four times that of 2022, if the goal set by the Paris Agreement is met. The world has to invest $4.5 trillion per year in clean energy investment, while the global clean energy spending was only $1.8 trillion in 2023. It’s far from oversupply or over capacity. Let’s set aside the differences and work on those things. I’m glad that the UK does not levy the EV car tariffs on China.
Here’s an interesting anecdote: Many years ago, U.S. President Reagan asked Soviet leader Gorbachev, “If aliens were to attack the United States, would the Soviet Union come to our aid?” Gorbachev replied, “Yes.” Then Gorbachev posed the same question: “If aliens attacked the Soviet Union, would the United States come to our aid?” Reagan also answered, “Yes.” Today, the “alien” we all face is climate change—a threat to all of humanity that demands our collective effort and cooperation to overcome. There’s no reason for us to separate when facing these common challenges. I’d like to emphasize that climate change is the biggest threat. It is our common enemy. We have set aside our differences to work together and fight against it. So I propose let’s have a G10 Summit annually, gathering the 10 largest carbon emission countries together to concentrate on global solutions in fighting climate change.
The last proposal is about artificial intelligence, a double-edged sword requiring global governance.
We know artificial intelligence is a term that you can’t avoid anywhere now. It’s everywhere in our daily life. And I’m glad that the UK has taken some leadership. Two years ago, the inaugural Global AI Summit in London underscored the urgency of addressing artificial intelligence as both an opportunity and a challenge, with China actively contributing to discussions. As the two biggest AI countries, if the U.S. and China go separate, if they don’t work with each other, that’ll be a huge challenge. We could face threats from AI in the foreseeable future.
In June this year, the German Ambassador Patricia Flor and the French Ambassador Bertrand Lortholary contacted me, “Henry, why can’t we do something together? Let’s have a seminar about AI at CCG!” Therefore, I cohosted a seminar in June 2024 with German Ambassador Patricia Flor and French Ambassador Bertrand Lortholary to highlight the ongoing urgency surrounding AI governance and regulation.
European countries can make a huge contribution to mitigating concerns around AI, by setting new regulations and mediating between China and the U.S. on AI issues.
I’ll go back to Beijing at the end of this week and start preparing for the tenth China Global Think Tank Innovation Forum. I invited the French Ambassador. We’ll have a section on AI. You know, France will host the AI Action Summit in February 2025. These issues require international cooperation.
Ladies and gentlemen.
As we navigate an era of both great promise and immense challenges, it is clear that global cooperation is no longer optional—it is essential. Regardless of whether we are addressing geopolitical conflicts, combating climate change, or shaping the digital economy, the shared responsibility of major powers—China, the United States, and Europe—will define the future of our interconnected world. The COVID-19 pandemic showed us how vulnerable human beings can be without mutual support. The world has so many burning issues going on that need major powers to work together.
History has shown us that when nations work together, they can overcome even the most daunting obstacles. By fostering dialogue, promoting mutual understanding, and leveraging our collective strengths, we can build a more peaceful, sustainable, and prosperous global community.
History has shown us that when nations work together, they can overcome even the most daunting obstacles. By fostering dialogue, promoting mutual understanding, and leveraging our collective strengths, we can build a more peaceful, sustainable, and prosperous global community. Thus, I also sincerely hope the prestigious Oxford Union Society can provide a platform for dialogues between countries.
Let us move forward with a shared vision and a commitment to collaboration, ensuring that the challenges of today become the opportunities of tomorrow. Together, I am confident that we can safeguard global peace and stability for generations to come.
Thank you.
Interview
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Thank you very much for joining us and once again for your inspirational remarks. I wanted to start by asking about the Chinese political system. You wrote an article to the China Daily recently that Chinese Democracy, as you refer to it, is a blend of traditional wisdom and innovation. Given that China does not hold national elections and that it is ruled single-handedly by the Communist Party, how could you describe China as a democracy?
Henry Huiyao Wang
That’s a good question. The reason why I’m saying that is that China has a very unique governance model. For example, for thousands of years, there’s always a great mandarin system. For example, since the Sui Dynasty (581–618 ce), the officials were picked by examination papers, selected and also to some extent elected.
I can give you an example. Even today, China has every year about 16 million high school students who go to the national exam like I did 40 years ago, but only 13 million are able to get into this system. That’s really how they select elites. On top of this, there are 2 million college graduates who go to the exam for public servants. There are only 200,000 being chosen every year into different government systems. So there’s a lot of selection going on.
Then further on, you have the governor’s official selection, which is not based on making a good talk. You have to be guarded on the performance. For example you can start as a village official, county official, municipality official and all the way up to the province, to central government, to minister and all the rest. That’s really interesting. That system is probably very unique in China. All the officials are measured by performance. If you’re doing well in your county, you can be promoted to a province.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Yes, but just to push back a little on that. That is not particularly unique to China. Here in the UK, there is a civil service. There are also exams to enter the Civil Service that would also be meritocratic the same way that you describe the selections that happen in China, but no one would accept the Civil Service ruling the UK as any form of democracy. So do you think it is appropriate to use the word democracy to describe China’s political system?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I think there’s another thing called consultative democracy. For example, the elites all get into the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference. And of course, there is the National People’s Congress as well. You have all those very interesting debates, unity, and consensus building. They seek more consensus-building rather than vetoing for veto’s sake. I would think they have a different system.
Also, they apply a lot of principles, like you have to be selected on merits. You have to be doing a good job in order to continue. You have to do one five-year plan after another five-year plan. All officials are measured on the performance. And there’s a system where they do selection and election every year. It’s not really just based on purely how well you talk or how well you make a plan. You have to be measured on the substance. That’s the system China is doing right now.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
I see. I wanted to also ask about Xi Jinping’s campaign promise when he became president—not his campaign promise but one of his pledges, which is that he wants to crack down on corruption in China. The New Citizens Movement had a lot of people arrested because they asked for public disclosures to be made regarding the assets owned by officials. Why do you think a proposal like which would help crackdown corruption in China would lead them to be arrested?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I think President Xi probably is one of the most severe leaders who punished those corruptions.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
He’s not punishing them. He’s punishing the people who are calling for crackdowns on corruption.
Henry Huiyao Wang
No, what I’m saying is that China’s anti-corruption campaign achieved unprecedented progress in the last decade. You see so many corrupt officials have been punished. So many have been handled and shown to the public. So I think in that respect, every year there’s an inspection, there’s a discipline and there are all kinds of things going on. China is making itself very strong in anti-corruption campaign. You should go to China and see that the corruption situation is much better now, compared with a number of years ago. It has made a lot of progress.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
You can’t really go to China to make this investigation without having a Chinese official following you throughout that, but I will move on to the American election. I wanted to see what you think about the isolationist policies that are being proposed by president-elect Trump, and his suggestions that he would impose very high tariffs. How do you think that would impact China-U.S. relations and also China’s standing on the global stage?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I think President Trump has his way of doing things. I understand.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Do you agree with his way?
Henry Huiyao Wang
He’s a businessman. He likes to calculate and make gains. From his point of view. I perfectly understand that.
But I think probably, his approach is more interesting. Let’s talk about concrete things. Let’s talk about tariffs. Let’s talk about Phase One, Phase Two, and Phase Three. Let’s talk about how we can handle IPR, subsidies, or all those issues, rather than having issues like autocracy versus democracy—this binary view. For example, he said at his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention that he welcomed Chinese investment. If you invest in Mexico, I’m going to probably raise your tariff to 200%. If they invest in the U.S., he welcomes that, which is fine. I just saw the Chinese CEO of CATL, one of the largest battery producers in the world say they’re willing to invest in the US, which is great.
We could help President Trump with many things. For example, he wants to be a peace president. As I said, China can help him with that. He wants to be a MAGA president, China can also help revitalize the U.S. manufacturing sector. So I see this as positive progress if he really works on that line. Also, he’s surrounded by a number of very smart businessmen who know China very well. Common sense probably could prevail and there will be more business opportunities if we really pursue that path. Otherwise, if we really become a rivalry situation, if we’re locked into this Cold War mentality, that would be devastating for both the U.S. and China and the world.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Thank you. I wanted to now talk about human rights in China, which is a topic that China doesn’t like to discuss much. Human rights groups’ evidence (shows) that in China, there are 1 million Uyghurs who are detained for the past few years in a network of state-run re-education camps, as they’re called in China now. In these camps, there was reported indoctrination torture, even attempts of suicide from people on these camps. Do you think it is okay for China to treat 1 million people of its own citizens in that way?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I don’t know where your data come from.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Some of this data is Chinese data.
Henry Huiyao Wang
No, I haven’t seen that. What I can tell you is that the Chinese government spokesperson, quite a few years ago already, said their training camps for Uyghurs in Xinjiang have already finished. They have already graduated. All the Uyghurs have finished all the training classes already.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
If graduation is not (finished), how many Uyghurs would you describe are there?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Because of terrorists and historical issues, there could be something…
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
1 million terrorists?
Henry Huiyao Wang
No, I’m not talking about 1 million. What I’m saying is that because there are some instances like that. There are quite a lot actually. I remember there were people driving a big van storming Tiananmen Square. Some people actually killed a number of people at the Kunming Railway Station many years ago. There could be some measures taken. But I think you’re right. If we look in retrospect, there are many things we could do better and improve. But I can tell you, there are no more camps now. As five, six years ago the spokesperson said, all the camps were dissolved. They were finished. China is actually looking forward to new progress. Xinjiang now is the safest and most prosperous place to visit now. It’s open. Anybody who wants to go to Xinjiang is welcomed, including foreign journalists. I was there not too long ago. And I really hope everybody from here can pay a visit there to really see with their own eyes how great changes have taken place in Xinjiang. It’s one of the fastest-growing areas in China.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Even if we accept that the camps are over, the UK Parliament have declared what’s happened in Xinjiang to the Uyghurs is a genocide. Do you think that Chinese officials should be held accountable for the actions that happened in Xinjiang?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I totally disagree. I don’t think it’s going to that far, as you said, like a genocide.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
That is the UK Parliament.
Henry Huiyao Wang
They may have their opinions. But you can really go and see. It’s very prosperous. There could be some things that can be handled better; I don’t disagree with that, but I don’t think that’s as far as to the degree of a genocide. If you ask anybody there, they won’t say that. What happened in Gaza is a genocide. I don’t see anything like that happen in Xinjiang at all.
Things can be improved. I think there are many lessons we learnt. Antiterrorism is really a new area where a lot of countries need a lot of experiments. I remember maybe 10 years ago, that was a really terrible slaughter. We have all those incidents happening. Of course China wants to prevent that. We have things going on there. It’s good for the people in Xinjiang and for the stability of the region.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Thank you very much. If there’s one thing that you think the West misunderstands about China, what would it be?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Autocracy versus democracy. China is multifaceted. As I said, there’s meritocracy in China; there’s concultative democracy in China. There is a Mayor’s Hotline 12345 that everybody can call. One of our staff had a family decorating problem. They just called it and then the local government came to help with that.
The other thing is China has 34 provinces and big cities of provincial status. Every place is competitive and dynamic. It’s 1.4 billion people. A country of such size never really have a readily available governance model. It’s going through the river by touching the stones, like Deng Xiaoping said. I think China is doing remarkably. In the last four decades, China lifted 800 million people out of property. That represents 70% of property reduction according to the UN at that time. China became the second largest economy in the world in decades’ time. China now becomes much greener and cleaner. It becomes the biggest green power country in the world. China builds two-thirds of global high speed railways. China has 75% of global 5G networks. So China must have done things well to achieve that.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
But if the political system in China is predicated on the economic success that undoubtedly China is seeing, if this economic successive growth stops in China, does this mean that you can let go of that system and have a more democratic approach to governance in China?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Nobody knows whether the shoe fits them unless they wear it. As a Chinese, I would say of course there are a lot of problems. I don’t dispute that. There are a lot of challenges. But on the whole, China has been lifting 800 million people out of property. I was talking to one of the European former country leaders. He was telling me, “Look, we have an issue of Syria, Middle East. 1 million refugees flooded Germany, Europe. We get a chaotic situation. Anti-globalization. Brexit. Everything is boiling. If just 10% of 800 million people in China not getting out of property and become refugees flooding the world, the world could have been in huge trouble. So you see, China can contribute over 30% of global GDP growth and become the largest trading nation with 140 countries. China must have done something right. This is really welcomed by the Global South. I think China is doing fine and China’s system certainly is still evolving and improving. Nothing is perfect. We have problems. We’ve made mistakes. But on the whole, I think Chinae made a lot of progress. China is making a great contribution to global stability and prosperity.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Thank you very much Dr. Wang. I want to move to audience questions. But before I do that, I want to ask one last question about the one-China policy and China’s relationship with Taiwan. Now the Chinese Ambassador to Australia said that China would need to re-educate the Taiwanese people so that they would have the correct understanding of China. What do you think the Taiwanese people are getting wrong that makes them need education? And secondly, why is it that when 84% of Taiwanese nationals do not want reunification with China, only 12% of Taiwanese people want to reunify with China, China is not respecting that?
Henry Huiyao Wang
That’s not the way to look at it. For example, I look a little differently on one-China policy. There’s no dispute between China and the U.S. and 184 countries who established diplomatic ties with China. When they had diplomatic ties with China, it was all stipulated that there’s one China. Taiwan is part of China.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
The Taiwanese people do not agree with that.
Henry Huiyao Wang
No. You can see from the election this year. The DPP, which is pro-independence only got 40%. The other two parties, where are pro-unification, got 60% and they have the parliament majority. There are 2 million Taiwanese people working in the mainland. This year just by October, 3 million Taiwanese have travelled to the mainland. The Fujian government adjunct to Taiwan welcomed Taiwanese to work in Fujian: free schooling, medicare, social security and everything. There are 2 million Taiwanese working in the mainland and half a million husbands and wives married across the strait. Before DPP took over, 6 million mainlanders flooded to Taiwan, sending money as tourists and stimulating the local economy. I believe economic integration will happen.
And nobody said China is going to take over Taiwan in 2027. I keep hearsaying that. I haven’t seen anything like that in China. I think China prefers a peaceful unification. Of course, they don’t rule out any measures against independent (moves) or foreign invasion or anything. If we can keep the status quo and let the economic integration happen—I mean, they are all Chinese: the same language, culture and heritage—I don’t see how they can’t get together in the end. It takes time. I’m sure that day will come.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Would you support the referendum happening in Taiwan so the Taiwanese people can actually have their say on whether they want reunification or not.
Henry Huiyao Wang
I think if they want to have a referendum, they could have a referendum of whole China. Let’s get 1.4 billion people including Taiwanese to do a referendum. I’m sure there’s a very tiny minority that wants to be independent.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
But this is the self-determination of the Taiwanese people, not of the mainland.
Henry Huiyao Wang
They are part of the mainland.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
You’re already assuming that Taiwan is part of China. If you’re already having part of China…
Henry Huiyao Wang
Historically it’s part of China.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
So you do not support a referendum of Taiwan?
Henry Huiyao Wang
I support a referendum within the whole China to do that.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
But not just Taiwan?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Each province of China doesn’t do it on its own. If you are talking about referendum, let’s do it for the whole China. I’m sure 99% or 98% of Chinese would prefer unification.
Ebrahim Osman-Mowafy
Thank you very much Dr. Wang. We now move to audience questions.
Q & A
Audience1
What do you think about the very recent announcement that Trump promises to raise tariffs on Canada, China, and Mexico? Do you think it’s strictly business? Or do you think it will impact economic globalization and peacekeeping?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Great question. I noticed that news that President-elect Trump announced that he was gonna have 25% for Canada, Mexico, and China. I’m glad to hear that it’s not 60%. He was saying 60%. Now he’s saying 25%. I think China can absorb that because if Trump adds tax more and more countries—like he said, he’s going to add tax to rest of the Europe for 20%—the more he adds tax on other countries, the other countries will do more trade with China. Of course, we don’t want to have a tariff war, because that hurts everybody. But I think he’s a businessman. He’s starting some kind of tariff pressure because of the Mexicans, because the Canadians were not doing a good job in terms of preventing illegal immigrants. That’s why he’s doing this. Probably on China he has other reasons too. But I can see this is extremely unpopular internationally. I don’t know how long that’s going to be sustained. On the other hand, I do think Canada, Mexico, the EU and other countries, if the US is imposing tariffs on everybody, then everybody will do more business with China. We probably will have a better united front against this tariff war. I think the world will say no to that.
Audience2
My question is I see the great development in China. There’s a very good progress. We want to always see China as strong and powerful because it plays, as you say, a global role to stabilise the balance in the world between countries. But on the other hand, I see like there are Xinjiang and Tibet and I don’t see much benefit of them to China. Why would you think that they should be part of China while they are draining the energy of Great China and that China can have great potential without these areas? They don’t really help into economy or anything. Can you tell me what is the benefit of keeping them? Why are they part of China?
Henry Huiyao Wang
That’s an awkward question. Historically they are a part of China and it’s a long history already. Actually, both Xinjiang and Tibet are one of the highest GDP growth regions in China. There is so much support from other provinces in China to support the economic growth in those areas. For example, nowadays you know the tourists flood Xinjiang. There are a lot of conferences going on there. There are a lot of visitors there. All the Muslim country ambassadors were there praising that Xinjiang is doing very well. I think that as time goes on, we’ll see a more prosperous minority region. China has 56 minorities. It’s all part of the greater family. It’s common prosperity altogether. Chinese governments of all the other provinces really support those frontier region to make it more attractive and more productive with higher growth. I don’t have any doubt that those regions are much closer within the Chinese family. They are really prosperous together.
Audience3
A lot of my research is about Belt and Road Initiative, looking at different projects in Zimbabwe, Pakistan, and other BRI countries. My question is, does China see BRI as a way to announce AI technology (inaudible). So does China look and see BRI as an opportunity to expand more safe cities, the use of surveillance and AI technology? Or how does it view both technology and its role in BRI?
Henry Huiyao Wang
Thank you. That’s also a good question. I think BRI is something announced about 11 years ago. It is probably the largest world gigantic development plan for developing countries. China is doing that to revitalize the world on the infrastructure. And I see that’s really making a lot of progress. For example, in the last decade, China has invested $1 trillion into 3,000 Belt and Road project across a number of developing countries. It’s hugely beneficial to those countries. For example, recently, Indonesia just concluded the fast train from Bandung to Jakarta, cutting the traffic from 4 hours to 40 minutes—enormous progress. In Europe there’s a railway building through Serbia to Hungary. In Africa you have a lot of that. You see the port in Athens become one of the best port in Europe now. China is doing great things to get the infrastructure to the world.
I don’t think China has any other purposes but really to benefit. I had an African Ambassador telling me before that they are really looking for the world to have some big project. But then they can’t find it except the Belt and Road Initiative. They appreciated that. I was talking to Sri Lankan Ambassador just a few days ago in Beijing. He said the debt trap is not true. China’s debt in Sri Lanka is only probably about 10%. It’s not really a big issue like people said outside.
Furthermore, China’s attention to the Global South on the global infrastructure deficit has caught the world’s attention now. The U.S. came up with Build Back Better World, B3W. The EU came up with EU Global Gateway, which is great. Let’s get all the developed countries invest on infrastructure projects and help the Global South, which is badly needed. Of course, the Belt and Road is not perfect. It has some challenging issues as well. But I think the direction is correct and China is doing its best to to achieve that.
Audience4
Hi! Thank you very much. I have to say I have a very deep resonance from my parents’ side on their experience before the opening up of China. My question is that with the increasingly popular rhetoric in the West that “China is a threat,” and “China is a threat to the Western world and to this world’s stability,” do you think it is true for the Western world to think this way? Or do you think that there’s a certain group of people trying to propagate these ideas? And finally, do you think it will ever come to a point where the East and West will start working together again?
Henry Huiyao Wang
You have raised also an interesting question: whether East and West will finally get together. You know, all roads lead to Rome. Eventually, we live on the same planet. Human beings have to work together. As I said, we have to face the common challenge of climate and AI. On top of that, we cannot have a war on each other. Because of the history, culture and different development paths, there are a lot of misunderstandings and mistrust. That’s undeniable. But let’s get to know each other better. Let’s share more understanding. So I’m very glad to see China, in just recent few months, unilaterally opened the visa for 27 EU countries, a number of countries in ASEAN, Japan, and South Korea. That’s a huge breakthrough. Because in the past, China always said, “We need to be reciprocal. Why do we give you visa while you don’t give me visa? We have to be equal.” But now China is okay. If you don’t give me free visa, I give you free visa. By doing that, you have seen more foreign friends coming to China, and seeing is believing. That’s the best way to get rid of this mistrust and misunderstanding.
Eventually, the world has been so prosperous. We are so advanced 80 years after Bretton Woods system. The world still hasn’t had a Third World War happening. I think we have to keep working. We should not destabilize the world. The East and the West have so many things in common. After all, we’re all human beings. We are the same. With a platform like Oxford Union and with many others in the world, we can promote the concept of peaceful coexistence, allowing different systems. The world is so colorful and diverse. Why should there be only one way of development? There could be two or three or four ways of development. Let’s tolerate diversity. Let’s really embrace the variety of the world. The world’s ecological development really needs every country to work together. I’m really optimistic that human beings will find a way to work together, no matter the East or the West, Global South or Global North. We have to work together. I’m sure common sense will prevail. Human kindness and the high spirit of dialogue and communication will prevail in the end.
